Curse

camael · Apr 20, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

You can make several hundred platinum spending only 10 minutes a day trying for it. I did, just the other day in fact, and so have quite a few other players so far. Best part is, the method is still viable (even more so now, after the "nerf"), can be done with almost any Primary Profession, and takes a few moments of sitting down, thinking, and maybe searching the Campfire to find.

You're talking that crazy "I can make ridiculous amounts of money easily" stuff that I'm not sure really exists. Why is this such a 'well-guarded secret'?

Isileth · Apr 20, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I fail to see what needs to be fixed, good update Anet!

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Apr 20, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I really wished a-net wouldnt of done that, for several reasons that doenst seem to matter to them anyway so i wont waste my time or yours lol, but i failed to see why it needed to be updated aswell, my guess is to stop [bots] but then why ruin it for the true players? gg.

ca_aok · Apr 20, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

This nerf doesn't hurt bots at all, it merely slows down their rate of gathering. People who bot just leave them on overnight to farm for them, they don't really care what their net gain was, since it was a gain without any work. Now honest people have no way to obtain FoW armor, except excessive DoA farming. Thanks a lot ANET.

Tannim · Apr 20, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Tagging Henchmen? I cant even select them let alone tagging them, they go where they want

Do you need a certain expansion (erm, chapter) or level to do this?

Does-it-Matter · Apr 20, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by camael

You're talking that crazy "I can make ridiculous amounts of money easily" stuff that I'm not sure really exists. Why is this such a 'well-guarded secret'?

The obvious answer to that would be, if the secret gets out, there is a greater chance of it being over-used and changed.

---

Back on topic:

Honestly. I love this farming change. The game is completely beatable without farming once. Any type of item is obtainable without farming (or without gold for that matter!)

The only reason for the high cost (and thusly high demand of gold-acquiring sources) is for vanity (skins) or those desiring perfect weapons.

Those should be rare. Everyone and their cousin shouldn't have 15k armor, or FoW armor, etc.

I don't know how many different posters I've read who say "I have 15k armor on all my characters" (or the ones that say they have FoW armor on all of them!)

So much for rare huh? Maybe now it will be.

Besides. Want gold? Try the Buried Treasure, Do No Touch, and Hidden Chests in Nightfall. They reset every 30 days (tested and verified in other threads, and personally.)

Lots of Platinum, lots of gold items, lots of mods.

When people understand the game isn't about farming, that it was designed for the "every man" casual gamer, emphasizing skill over grind, maybe it will be realized that the ascetic value of the items are a far second to the actual game play.

One Edit: Skills, skills and elites cost gold and aside from the initial two Signets you are given from the quest, you need to buy the rest (and only prophecies has the "learn skills from trainers" part.)

Well, let's look at it like this.

Armor: Collectors = Free
Weapon: Drops = Free, Collectors = Free
Inscriptions (Bonus): Salvaged from drops = Free
Mods (Bonus): Salvaged from drops = Free
Superior Salvage Kit = 400 gold
ID Kit = 100g
Signet of Capture = 1000 gold
Skills = Scalable up to 1000 gold each.

You can get by the game with only having to pay for four things (2 kits, Signet, Skills... and really skills are the only thing you "need" to beat the game.)

Everything necessary is capable of being attained for free, aside from Skills. So spend all that merchant cash and drop cash (and Nightfall key less chests) on skills and you can have everything without farming at all.

IF you /want/ vanity items, you /will/ have to work for them. That's how it should be. (Note: Work does not equate to copying the newest farming build, and running it ad nauseam. It means putting in the LONG hours necessary.)

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 20, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

I fail to see what needs to be fixed, good update Anet!

Yes, you fail to see. Probably the best way to "fix" this:

If you can kill mobs without having a group you should get the benefit of all the loot that would normally drop. In other words, every mob you kill should be dropping something according to their loot table, and it should all be yours.

How's that for radical?

If the loot system was actually scaled, a solo player in an area of 8-man groups would get 8 times more loot than if he were in a full group. That's truly scaled looting. Of course, the new "improved" scale is running in the opposite direction and works counterintuitively. So, if you rob a bank with 8 guys, you get 8 times the loot, and if you rob the bank by yourself, you get 1/8 the amount... O.o

But, this loot change was done intentionally as a means to fight online sales of in-game items. Like I said in a prior post: it's like restricting cotton farming in order to fight boll weevils...

Y.T. · Apr 20, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

i'm not sure guys if solo- and duo-farm was truly nerfed, not like i care (cos personally i hardly ever solofarm now) but i've noticed that the numbers of duo titan farmers in DoA were the same as usual last nite after HM was made active... they all were farming on normal tho, mb solo/duo farm was nerfed on hard?

whats weird tho - the gold/gem drop rate of HM is just the same as on normal, we tryed foundry on HM and it takes forewer, mobs r scattering in sec, unprotted eles die in 1 hit even with barrier and bond on them (500+ damage after just life barrier), but the drop rate is the same.... i cant get it

Jenn · Apr 20, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

It seems like aNet thought quite a bit about themselves and forgot their players in the process.

Even with this "hard mode" update, they have not done enough to make PvE repeatable over and over. Guild Wars has been out for about 2 years, and there have not been dynamic changes to make players feel like they're playing something different each time, no matter the character class. So how did people adjust? They set different goals other than just getting masters in every mission. They worked towards collecting items, armors, and gold. If people don't have a source of income other than just PLAYING through the game, people will get bored mighty fast.

I'm sorry, but aNet hasn't created something so spectacularly interesting that I can do each mission 17 times in different modes to get 1/18th of a way to a Fissure set.

"You have been playing for 10,934 hours. Please get a life."

I don't think money should fall from trees, but I don't feel like progressing at the same rate economically as someone who has been playing for two weeks.

Yeah, I get that it sucks about bots and stuff, but someone else previously mentioned: if people want to buy their gold, there will always be someone to sell it. Maybe aNet should have jumped on the bandwagon and become an authorized merchant of gold instead of sniffling about their "losses."

I'm feeling particularly bitter at the moment. I hope that didn't show too much in my post =P

Dewzy · Apr 20, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

this nerf in farmings ridiculous, and does-it-matter, are u crazy?????
if you wanna look like a dumb ass in little collectors items, be my guest, a lot of others wanna make their characters look better than that. now this farm things all messed up, its almost impossible to get these things. anets been trying to nerf farming for a while. what was the point in that? all their doing is making things harder to get. at the moment, a tormetned shield is around 950k or so. now theres stupid drop rate changes, can someone tell me how you wanna get 950k? some people dont want to collect gems in groups. in groups you get this.
-rage quitters
-noobs
-disbands
-trouble getting IN a group

this update is ridiculous, the hardmode things ok but why nerf farming? im sure a lot of people want high end items and now anet just took away the fastest way to do it. unless prices go down dramatically, i dont think anyones gonna get anything soon now.

Does-it-Matter · Apr 20, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

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Originally Posted by Dewzy

if you wanna look like a dumb ass in little collectors items

Did I miss the memo where it stated choice in armor skins affected or was a direct result of the player's level of intelligence?

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a lot of others wanna make their characters look better than that.

And they are entitled to that. They simply must work for it. The best things in life aren't free. You have your free alternative, so there shouldn't be any screaming about stuff being too expensive.

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all their (Arena Net) doing is making things harder to get.

Actually, it would be our fellow players who set the prices. Typically when ANet is in control of the price (see traders) it is lower than the original market demand.

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at the moment, a tormetned shield is around 950k or so.

You need a torment shield to beat the game or to in some way affect your game play? Does it have some sort of "safety blankie" type effect I'm not aware of?

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now theres stupid drop rate changes, can someone tell me how you wanna get 950k?

Well... how did you get it before? It's the same, just slower.

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some people dont want to collect gems in groups. in groups you get this.

Well then, it sounds like "some people" are going to have problems collecting the very expensive gear. *blinks* Sorry, sorry, I caught myself there... it was almost starting to sound realistic. Bad game!

Quote:

-rage quitters
-noobs
-disbands
-trouble getting IN a group

See: Human (noun)

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im sure a lot of people want high end items and now anet just took away the fastest way to do it.

So... yeah, I'm trying to see your point here. "Fast way to gather huge sums of cash is now gone. Players are resolved to other means, typically slower and more challenging, to gather expensive items."

To me, that makes the item more worth it.

You can 'work' two hours for an item (as some claim to be able to reach 100k or so in that time span) or you can spend sixteen hours 'working' for that item. Which in turn creates a more "rewarding" feel in the owner?

To bring up an example. There is a standard "tradition" (at least in the several parts of the US I'm familiar with) that you spend roughly three months salary on an engagement ring (and those recently engaged, feel free to correct me. Hell, if one of my friends had her way, it would be a year's pay.) It's not "X" money, it's not a set price. It's whatever YOU make in three months time. It shows invested effort.

Yes, you could use your lottery earnings on a ring, or a sudden stock market rising (in your favor!)... or your most recent score from robbing a bank to pay for said expensive ring earlier (I'm trying to find real world examples that allow a person to make abnormal amounts of income quickly... not too many examples if you notice.) But then that takes away the "invested effort" part.

(And as a side note: I know many men and women would be happy to receive anything from their engaged partner, I'm not attempting to dissuade that, this is just an example speaking to a tradition.)

Will this mean players get less? Yes.

Will it mean players accumulate "rare" items more slowly? Yes.

Will it mean the "Gimme Generation" has to put a little more effort in? You betcha.

Quote:

unless prices go down dramatically, i dont think anyones gonna get anything soon now.

And there we have it. Retailers of these items are human, like their buyers. They will want to get their gold, just like you do. And when their income (buyers) is turned off, they will take measures to see the flow returned. That means lowering prices.

Supply and Demand. Guild Wars is not going to wreck a millennia-old truth, have patience.

MithranArkanere · Apr 20, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

They have 'nerfed' nothing.

They just made that no matter how many people is in the party, you'll get 1/[possible party members] from the monsters.

Why? To encourage using AI or making groups.

So if you want to go for a Green, you call your guildies , join, and kill the boss, instead of solo farming.

Since that's how it was meant to be, it's not a 'nerf', but a 'fix'.

Risa · Apr 20, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

/Agree with the previous posters who pointed out that the bot farmers are significantly less impacted than the average players with this nerf.
Athough...
If this was designed to increase gold prices on 3rd party sites (For a reason I couldn't give you) then this is a great change to the game.

Dewzy · Apr 20, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

yea like 8x slower....

and YES it does make people want to bot.
if you seroiusly want to spend like 8 hours a day farming manually go right ahead. but most people rather spend 1-3 hours or so and make decent amounts of money.

TORMETNED SHIELD is a nice shield which people want to look BETTER???
you dont need it to beat the game it just makes you LOOK better. now theres thats tupid little nerf to solo farm itll take 8x longer then it woulda took. and if you really want to spend *16 hours* to feel better about urself...im not sure everyone wants to. and if is it even possibel to get a few 100k a day in a short amount of time?? i havent seen a way and im sure almsot everyoen hasnt. taking the tormetned shield as an example, its worth alot. and since it takes a good amount of time to get it, it is rewarding enough. now that u have to farm like 8x longer, how is that more rewarding? you work enuf to get the dam shield and now you have to work even more? not everyoen wants to play for 16 hours when they used to be able to do it in less time. many people do like to piss you off in groups and thats why it IS better to solo farm if people dont want to deal with that.

as how i got money before? i personally farmed about 2k per run + mods and runes. now i get like 500 per run IN hardmode, w/o any decent drops. plz tell me wats the pleasure in doing that? what your saying is completely unreasonable. do people get rare items slowly? YES! but now its even SLOWER. like 8x slower. and which in turn is more rewarding? spending 5 hours more of your life to play a game? is there any joy in sitting here playing a game farming forever? some people have a LIFE and would ratehr do things the fastest way. tell me in thsi real life situation, you said that it would be more "rewarding" to spend more time getting something? hows this for example then. would you rather work for 24$/hour or 3$/hour. gosh i wonder whats more rewarding?

you're right, people do not need FoW armor or 15k armor. but do people want it? YES! and do they want to spend 24 hours getting it when they used to be able to only spend 3? YES! can thsi be changed back? YES! is that why me and others are argueing about this matter? YES!

spending more time to get something is rewarding at times, but when you coulda gotten it in a lot less time, i bet you woulda rather had it the way it was.

Does-it-Matter · Apr 21, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dewzy

and YES it does make people want to bot.

Agreed, that is just more of the "Gimme Generation." They want something, they want it yesterday, and they want it with the littlest amount of work possible.

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if you seroiusly want to spend like 8 hours a day farming manually go right ahead.

Personally, no I wouldn't enjoy that, but then again, I look at "high end skins" as an ascetically pleasing item, not a necessity.

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but most people rather spend 1-3 hours or so and make decent amounts of money.

Actually, I bet most people would rather spend just the amount of time it takes to fill in the appropriate boxes in the trade panel, and nothing more. Just because they want in soon, doesn't mean they should have it soon.

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TORMETNED SHIELD is a nice shield which people want to look BETTER???
you dont need it to beat the game it just makes you LOOK better.

So we're agreed, it in no way affects game play. Thus, it is not necessary, and thus not "needed." You aren't entitled to gaining it easily, only with work.

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now theres thats tupid little nerf to solo farm itll take 8x longer then it woulda took. and if you really want to spend *16 hours* to feel better about urself...im not sure everyone wants to.

As I said, I personally wouldn't attempt to garner insanely over-priced items at all. I am just saying that with greater investment, comes a greater feeling of worth.

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and if is it even possibel to get a few 100k a day in a short amount of time?? i havent seen a way and im sure almsot everyoen hasnt.

Depending upon how loosely you define "few", there have been examples in the past.

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taking the tormetned shield as an example, its worth alot. and since it takes a good amount of time to get it, it is rewarding enough.

Rewarding enough for whom? Enough for the person that wants it "now!" or enough for the amount of status it has garnered?

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now that u have to farm like 8x longer, how is that more rewarding?

(Useful) time spent tends to equal a greater feeling of accomplishment.

I know for a fact my first engineering project which we basically bought off Ebay and modified slightly (and then spent the rest of the funds on food and "product testing" which essentially dissolved into crushing cans) was a lot less rewarding (but quicker!) than the one that caused a group of five to spend 80 hours of group work and double that of individual time on.

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you work enuf to get the dam shield and now you have to work even more? not everyoen wants to play for 16 hours when they used to be able to do it in less time.

And thusly not many people should have these highly coveted, expensive and, rare items.

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many people do like to piss you off in groups and thats why it IS better to solo farm if people dont want to deal with that.

That's a product of people being human. The thought of someone playing purposefully to hinder the efforts of his/her team boggles my mind, but it is a reality.

But Guild Wars is a CORPG, the keyword there is cooperative (i.e. groups.)

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as how i got money before? i personally farmed about 2k per run + mods and runes. now i get like 500 per run IN hardmode, w/o any decent drops. plz tell me wats the pleasure in doing that?

I couldn't tell you, I never enjoyed farming in any state of reference.

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what your saying is completely unreasonable. do people get rare items slowly? YES! but now its even SLOWER. like 8x slower.

Which is a fact of the game. The problem is, up until now many have gotten used to (even to the point of expecting, or feeling entitled to) a certain number of rare drops. That completely goes against the idea of them being rare.

Arena Net changed it. Items are more rare. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

(As a side note, have you noticed how everyone loves to cry the "it took them two years to change this!?" I saw it with Soul Reaping, with this, with AoE, etc. I almost feel that ANet should preface their updates with "In this update, it took us two years to change..." and then list the changes, simply to silence the monotonous cries of those unwilling to accept change.)

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and which in turn is more rewarding? spending 5 hours more of your life to play a game? is there any joy in sitting here playing a game farming forever?

Personally? Hell no, but then I would say that to even ONE hour of farming. You seem to be happy with 1-3, so its a case of "to each their own."

More to the point, there are a variety of people who are doing the typical "New update = Rage quit" methodology because they ONLY played the game to farm (yeah... I was surprised to see that too.) So to answer the last question of yours, to those people, yes, there is a joy of playing a game farming forever.

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some people have a LIFE and would ratehr do things the fastest way.

Well, not everyone can have their cake and eat it too. If you don't want to go through the motions, you aren't going to receive the benefits.

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tell me in thsi real life situation, you said that it would be more "rewarding" to spend more time getting something? hows this for example then. would you rather work for 24$/hour or 3$/hour. gosh i wonder whats more rewarding?

If the situation was that my "living expenses" were already taken care of (as everything "essential" in guild wars is free) and I had to chose between $3/hr (playing the game) or $24/hr (farming), I would choose playing the game. If all things are equal, and I am only working towards something astetic, I would choose to more fun one.

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you're right, people do not need FoW armor or 15k armor. but do people want it? YES! and do they want to spend 24 hours getting it when they used to be able to only spend 3? YES! can thsi be changed back? YES! is that why me and others are argueing about this matter? YES!

Just a point of humor, you actually said that players would want to spend 24 hours instead of 3.

Back on topic, many things CAN be changed back. Minion Cap, Rune of Absorption, etc. but they HAVE NOT. I completely support you in voicing your opinion and attempting change, but I don't see it happening.

"Wanting" something is not a sufficient enough reason to "have" something.

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spending more time to get something is rewarding at times, but when you coulda gotten it in a lot less time, i bet you woulda rather had it the way it was.

For some people this is true. For me, see my engineering example.

6am3 Fana71c · Apr 21, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

You can make several hundred platinum spending only 10 minutes a day trying for it.

Yeah, and it's called "trading with high-end items" but that's TRADING, it's not farming. And it's easy when you have something to trade with, but how do you suppose to get stuff to start trading with, unless you farm? Gold doesnt drop from sky...

Dewzy · Apr 21, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

i do agree on you on alot of what you just said, but can you not see what im argueing about?

solo farming is dead. for alot of people thats what they do for gold. now that its gone, they have to spend more TIME to get what they want. and even with solo farming, the tormented shield still takes a while. now it takes alot more time. just because anet inspires cooperative play, does that mean you cant do anything by yourself? im sure you havent gotten any fancy items to improve your character look judging on how much you hate farming. i do not farm every single day. if i want something, i farm until i have enough, i buy the item, then i continue playing the game as usual. now they it is 10x harder to get gold, i would have to spend more time farming, and less time playing the game. that is my main problem here. before the nerf, i was halfway there. and now that ive famred this much, i still want to work to get it but now i have to find alternative ways that gets you a lot less and takes a lot more time. playing guild wars is supposed to be fun. farming is NOT fun and i would like to do it as quickly as possible to get what i want then play the game again. if you were half way done wiht something, would you want to finish it? a lot of people try to get things on their own. if you get an item on your own with no ones help, then would that not be more forfilling to you? now it seems anet is MAKING you be on a team. the whole game you are ON a team so why take out the only thing you can do by yourself? and if you want something yes you work for it....but now that this update happened you have to work 10x harder and get 10x less then what you've gotten originally. if you want soemthing why not go for it??? its a game your supposed to want things.

Does-it-Matter · Apr 21, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Like I said before, I understand your point.

I /do/ have fancy items, as you say, I just haven't put extra effort (farming) into obtaining them. If a green drops, awesome! If I get a cool gold, super! But I'm not going to run at a particular character 30 times until I get what I want.

I /do/ understand other persons needs to have some as soon as possible. While I, and others, use the "gimme generation" reference a lot, it is human nature just the same.

Perhaps I've just gotten use to this scenario (either a particular item's greater expense, or more difficulty in obtaining enough cash to get said item... bills are great for that!) and that's why I'm not too quick to get upset. It is a fact of life after all.

The best advice I can offer, is stay dedicated and you WILL get your shield one day. And you will enjoy it.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 21, 2007, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Update - Friday April 20, 2007

Loot Changes

Adjusted the following items so that they are now exempt from loot scaling:

* Skill Tomes
* Scrolls
* Dye
* Rare materials, such as Ectoplasm
* Gemstones from the Domain of Anguish
* All other rare (gold) items
* All unique (green) items
* Special event items

Miscellaneous

* Henchmen that were previously sub-level 20 before entering Hard Mode now have appropriate armor and weapon damage for their level.
* Added the Warrior's 15k Knight's Armor set to the crafter in Marhan's Grotto.
* Updated the Legendary Cartographer Title Track to display as Legendary Cartographer.
=================================================

Un-nerfed, all's right with the world!

Now, where's that Auction House?